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Jilliums Hilliums @Emptygoddess

Age 39, Female

Liver of life

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Life

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"You have a vagina, you will do fine here at Newgrounds."

Posted by Emptygoddess - February 11th, 2010


Let's talk about feminism.

By lets, I mean I'm going to type about feminism and after you skim through what I type you're free to make some kind of sexist, humorous, or non-sequitur comment. Perhaps all three at once. This will probably be a long one, so I suggest those that wish to do so skip to the end now...

Ahem. For those still with us, I would have to classify myself as 'radical' feminist. Not that I go around stabbing men in the mommy daddy sack to punish them for having been born male, no. It just means that I think the basic structure of the social system we have up needs to change for true equality to be reached.

My perspective stated, I will now delve into the title of this post.

"You have a vagina, you will do fine here at Newgrounds."

This was a response to a post of mine. Joking or not I have found it to be a common opinion. There seems to be an assumption that based on the gender box I checked during profile creation here at newgrounds I have some kind of unfair advantage.

I am a mass of floating text, flash animations, and pixel art. My identity to you consists of that, a handle, a male female designation, and a statement that I am 'a liver of life'.

All things considered my gender should have no bearing on anything, and this is most important because... you and I will never have consensual sex. It isn't going to happen. You might, Thor protect me, hunt me down and do very illegal things. This could indeed happen. But as long as we're in the realm outside of my worst nightmares and horror movies, no. We will never have sex.

On the internet I have had many handles. I have had female handles, male handles, and gender neutral handles. All three have given me drastically different experiences. When the name I use has no gender attached people get angry. They get offensive and standoffish. They refuse to talk to me and communicate with me as a human being. Gender to them is an important part of communication. They need to judge who I am so they know what to talk about.

I don't like being judged, or I don't like being judged on unimportant aspects. Such as what gender the floating wall of text is.

We're on the internet. I'm a floating wall of text! I could be an AI, or a panda. An awesome typing panda. With amazing panda powers. Such as the power to type. Which for a panda would be very impressive.

I have used male names. As someone using a male handle on the internet I have found, and of course this is only me - all of these things are only personal experience, that people found me funny, interesting, odd, and annoying. The strange thing was that I found as a whole the things I wrote would get read more. Not looked at more, READ more, then given serious, or not so serious, responses that show the reader was engaged in the material. Also sometimes I would be accused of being a woman because I don't make a bunch of porn or sex jokes very often, and also sometimes do other weird things I can't even remember that apparently 'all men do'.

Gay was also assumed often. I would never disagree with any assumptions by anyone.

Using a female handle much of the same was true. I was found to be funny, interesting, odd, and annoying. Also, a bitch. Oh, and 'emo'. Or and a drama queen. Also I found that allot of the things I wrote would not actually be read by people. Or just not engaged as often. Also things were more likely to be taken seriously. Considering I often have a dry sense of humor and the written word can make tone problematic, it as occasionally made things interesting. Also I would sometimes be accused of being a woman.

Or being gay. I would never disagree with any assumptions by anyone.

More curiously thought, is that when writing with a female name I often see things like this.

"You have a vagina, you will do fine here at Newgrounds."
"Wow. Are you really female? That's amazing."
"All these fags are just responding to get in your panzt."
"you're such a stereotypical girl in this community you're making my girlfriend dryheave."

When writing with a female name there has been this strange vibe. A vibe that somehow any success I have made was because of the female nature of my handle, and any further success would be because of it. Not only that, but any negativeness was somehow a discredit to womankind.

I do not flirt. You are unlikely to see me in a chatroom and watch as I type things like...

*hugs!* Hey~! haven't seen you in awhile? *sits in your lap*

That's freaken weird.

I generally don't make posts or comments that by themselves have any real gender bias. My post about becoming a prostitute was made because prostitute was the silliest and most commonly used word that summed up the general idea. (For those that want to go read about me being a prostitute, it's in the archives of this webnetthingambob. It's not very interesting. I made like 400 bucks though.)

Yet apparently having my name with a suggested hyphenated F in front of it makes all the difference. It changes the very nature of people's response. Incredulous ness that I can't be a woman. Insistence that being a woman means people will like me better. And assertions that as a woman I am not doing what a woman should.

It seems strange that I need to constantly be reminded that my profile says female. Even in a place like newgrounds where it is assumed most people are predominantly male. Though thanks to internet anonymity you might all be gals for all I know.

Really it seems like an effort, conscious or otherwise, to shame me for it. To remind me and never let me forget I'm apparently different. Or at very least not standard. A constraint dig to make sure I can't forget for a second what suggestion of a physical body my internet persona brings up.

I find it strange that using a male handle I have never had this happen. Ever.

Once again this is just my experience. I know plenty of men have been reminded their men or held accountable for their entire gender's actions.

Still though, I doubt anyone has shown amazement at the suggestion they were male, as if being male was some kind of miracle for which a holy power should be thanked.

What does any of this in itself have to do with feminism? I always thought the best quote about the nature of feminism was pretty simply just "Feminism is the radical notion that women are people." On the internet I rarely feel like a person. I often regret my choice of gender regardless of which I choose. Something people in the real world don't get the luxury of slipping between willy nilly.

So in a sense, this is all at the heart of why I am a radical feminist.

I went on in a verbose way. Thank you those that bothered reading it.

Also, nyaaah, I might be a guy, or a girl, or a panda, nyaaah nyaaah!

That is all.

For those that skipped to the end, it is now time to post your inane sexism for kicks. It's more fun than it sounds, try it!


Comments

You are a panda, you will do fine here at Newgrounds.

Pandas have a great track record.

That was SOOO LONG! And yes I skipped it after "Ahem" on the second paragraph.

Yet you said nothing sexist. I am appalled at you vampyro the two hundredth and forty first. Appalled.

"Get in the kitchen and make me a sammich."

now that we have that out of the way, i'd like to talk a little on your subject, hard as it is, considering i havent had sleep for roughly 19 hours.. i read this 2 times, to try and fully understand it.
let's see..
your experiences on the interwebtubes. have you really had such shitty interactions just because of a female moniker?
...fuckin' girls gone wild..hang on.
...remote's too far; fuck it.
anywhosen.. people have acted like dicks because you're a woman (or man or panda) because on the internet, people can do or say what they want. if they want to call a black person a n****r, or a mexican a spic, or an asshole a deepened rectum which spews forth the most ridiculous ideas youve ever heard, they can.
it isn't necessarily about sexism, it's more like a blatant spewing of most people's true, honest, stupidity.
and i don't quite understand feminism. i think you guys are handling yourselves fine in a "man's world" (which sounds like utter shit.) in these times, women and blacks have had it easier than ever, and there are some problems, at least for women. because, unfortunately, some men still think that we, as a gender, are the superior gender. however, without the almighty vagina, so to speak, the males would a) not be here and 2) be even more useless.
jesus...did i just ramble...?
or did i make sense?
either way, i hope you have fun, miss(ter?) panda.
i don't know if it matters, but i'm 17. and tired. and i think i really did ramble D: i don't know, i might read this again tomorrow, if i remember. maybe i can make some sense out of it, eh?
and no, i'm not gay. people do what they'll do, but i personally would never do it. EVER.

Better than ever is a subject of debate, especially considering 'ever' assumes that means today is better for women then yesterday, and better then it was a week ago, or a year. And of course better than ever does not mean equal. It isn't really a problem with individual men thinking they're better; it is more an issue with a society as a whole. Though you don't have to agree with me on that.

My experience on the internet has been fine. I just find the discrepancy between my use of a male and female handle interesting, and sometimes a little saddening.

Also I found your need to decree your sexuality a little saddening. Why would anyone think you were gay? and if they did... why does it matter?

DUUHHH.

Welcome to the world we have this thing called profiling. Thanks to evolution we have this thing called the cerebral cortex that allows us to have bias. Having bias allowed us to flourish because with it we could understand things without having to experience them firsthand like most animals have to do.

It's a normal human trait. SORRY it's so shocking and terrible to you!! Maybe you should stop falling into stereotypes and people would treat you normally!! There are plenty of women who live happy, productive, sophisticated lives and people give them the respect they deserve. Besides, you're performing your experiment on an internet forum. What do you expect? Newgrounds is not a metaphor for world society. Are you really staking your entire claim of feminism on the Newgrounds forums? I realize you're probably not, but listen to how your post sounds, it's silly.

At any rate, think of it this way. I can tell you for a fact I already didn't like you from your icon and username. Yeah, I knew you were a girl, but that had nothing to do with it. There's this implication you're this sad poet type who whines about way more stuff than does anything about. Am I right? I don't know, but that's what I assumed. Maybe that's the problem most of the time, huh? Text doesn't allow a lot of room for nuance. If you assume someone's a whiny bitch or a really nice person, the simplest thing could be understood drastically different. You're already projecting who you are, not what gender you are, and that's how people respond. I mean, c'mon, EmptyGoddess? Think about that for a bit.

And again, that applies to bias. Completely natural, instinctual bias. And where should one draw the line? Pure diplomacy means nobody makes any decisions and gives everyone and everything the benefit of the doubt. There's a point where you become an individual human being, and it has to do with your biases, your tastes, and how you respond to the information you take in using those biases and tastes. And knowing that, it's easy to realize it's up to each individual to decide where the line is drawn. There's no rule and there never should be lest we enjoy the though of establishing thought police, or something.

Tis odd, the first thing I always thought of when seeing your name was a dinosaur with a really big head. Which is actually a good thing, because that would be adorable!

As for being a sad poet type, that's unlikely, my poetry sucks. Hard. And I'm a rather happy person.

Now biases are a wonderful thing. They do indeed give us the ability to act in situations we know nothing about. They let us keep ourselves sane in a world of billions of people. I sure can't remember a billion different names. I myself am subject to plenty of them. I'm racist and sexist. I'm full of biases.

But you say that biases are completely natural and instinctual. That the line is chosen by every individual person. Which is partly true. But allot of those biases are also influenced by the culture we live in. The jokes we tell. The fiction we enjoy. No ones bias is created in a vacuum. So bias is natural, but that does not mean the bias themselves are natural or disserved. Thought police could indeed help, but that would be a touch 1984ish for my taste. I prefer people talking with each other really. It seems less invasive and can be pretty effective.

And no, my entire claim to feminism isn't based on newgrounds, but putting this post up on newgrounds it does seem most prevalent to talk about my experience on newgrounds.

Many women lead full happy joyful wonderful lives. So do many men. This doesn't change the fact that the lives they lead are very different. I was just talking about my own experience with such things on the internet. It wasn't shocking, or angering, but it did make me a little sad.

I do apologies if I came off as a whiny bitch. I don't apologies for the post.

Fact is that we are so much fed with gender role since birth, through any kind of media or everyday interaction, that most people can not deal with a normal conversation without knowing what gender role they are supposed to assume. And those who excel at displaying the expected gender role will scorn those who haven't assented to it. And since internet is just life minus suppression, expect frantic reactions (with numerous accusation of faggotry, for example).

Rather than blaming internet, ask why people usually say that it's an horrible war crime to kill women and children - indicating that killing adult males is OK. Or consider ads where children are always displayed assuming stereotypical gender roles (boys are always conquering/constructing, girls are caring/preserving).

Granted, that was a rant. Granted, it sounds zOMG so gay 11one1. Well then, listen to that : I don't even NEED to assert my sexuality on an interboard. Take that, gender role !

It isn't fair that the assumption often seems like it's okay to kill men. The assumption of course being that men can protect themselves and women and children can't. Which breaks down on an individual level of course. I once knew this six year old that could kick my ass. And did.

I don't blame the internet. I just found it interesting and there are few places where it's so easy to see different reactions based on gender.

I think the main thing is that it's much rarer for a female to be an active member of, say, Newgrounds, resulting in it seeming to be something of an anomaly and thus worthy of pointing out. Somewhere such as Neopets, for example, being female is nothing out of the ordinary and probably wouldn't result in anything of the sort.

I played neopets for awhile waaaay back when it first started. For like a week. Good times.

It has chat features?

Or just a very high female ratio of players?

Lol you made Egoraptor pissed off
*thumbs up*
I dont blame him,i would been pissed off too if i read all of that feminism bulls#$&(I read half (no i didnt skipped after ahem))
Oh and btw,i dont think you would do great if you are a girl on newgrounds.
Maybe on some porn site.. (Jkjk)
And seriously,grow up,go out and stop posting sexist and feminism stuff on Newgrounds.. God.... If you dont want to have sex,just dont have it and all is a ok..

I never really see pissing someone off as a good thing.

I'm sorry I can't contribute much since I actually don't have much time until I have to run out the door for college.

To start it off, I'd say your view is more liberal/Marxist feminism than radical. Radical basically goes on and on about how women are oppressed because it's the nature of men and so on. Liberal and Marxist feminists are more "it's the system's fault". Liberal feels that if you alter the laws and policies a bit, equality will be achieved, while Marxist is more "women are exploited as well as the working class, god damn male upper class!".

Anyway, I think equality is a myth. I'd love it to happen for all round equality to exist, but it's a myth. You can change the system all you want, but human nature has it built in where we discriminate against others. It can be how we look, our race, sexuality, gender, religious beliefs or any other irrational thing. It's built in from the core because what's also built in is conformity. I think the media image doesn't help with what you've just said as well. There's a stereotype of how there's no women on the internet and as much as how absolutely false it is (I even ended up with a girlfriend for a short period of time who I met on World Of Warcraft, which if that isn't the absolute bunt of "NO WOMEN THERE! STUPID ANTI-SOCIAL NERDS" comments, I don't know what is), people actually believe it. Although I think it may be due to how independence of women is a reasonably new thing and how we're heading towards gender-neutrality (not to be confused with sex-neutrality), it's actually almost freaking people out.

As much as you support feminism and I agree with it, I don't support radical feminism just because their theories are incredibly lacking (the things you read in sociology...), they don't strive for equality but rather matriarchy and they think if you turn society into absolute anarchy or rebuild society all over against straight up it'll fix things. Personally, it wouldn't. If you just rebuild it straight up, you'll get the same problems because you'll still have the same views carried on or what you do fix, can be fixed through better and more efficient ways like altering policies and just giving it time. As much as it sucks, all you can do is give it time and all the stuff you're complaining about, will probably cease as gender becomes increasingly neutral.

Anyway, as much as I could probably rant on about it and make a better argument, got to run like hell. Ironically, for some sociology end-of-term assessment exam.

I was stating a feminist 'stance' to illustrate that I was coming from a specific feminist standpoint. Not to really argue the semantics of the particular word I used to describe said stance.

Me saying I think the system needs changing doesn't mean I think a matriarchy would be preferable. Or that we should have anarchy. But that the changes in the way things are needs to be more fundamental then cosmetic.

I could very well have my words mixed, and if so I apologies for misleading you.

What egoraptor said.

"Are you really staking your entire claim of feminism on the Newgrounds forums? I realize you're probably not, but listen to how your post sounds, it's silly." OH MY GOD YES EGORAPTOR

Do you NOT expect special treatment from a site where 70 percent of users are 13-16 and male?

I'm gonna take a leaf out of Seneca's book and say that you're angry because your expectations are too high. What do you expect out of a forum for teenage boys where FEMALES ARE A MINORITY?!

Each person will interact with each gender differently because it's a biological inclination: it's the caveman impressing the women for babies or it's the caveman gaining respect with the other men so he can make babies.

"I don't like being judged, or I don't like being judged on unimportant aspects. Such as what gender"

Seriously, we all judge. This is not a bad thing at all. Think whenever you meet a new person, the thoughts you always associate are along the lines of <gender> <notable physical appearances> because you can't really establish anything until gender is established.

"Gender to them is an important part of communication. They need to judge who I am so they know what to talk about."

Gender is pretty frickin important in social interaction. If we couldn't decipher genders how would we know who to make babies with and who to not piss off so we can make babies with girls?

One's gender is also a pretty frickin important part of one's identity and if you're withholding that then yes you are pretty fricking weird because sex is probably the first thing in a long list of the things that make us individual.

If the ONLY motivation for your extreme feminism is from interactions with TEENAGE BOYS on THE INTERNET then that is pretty frickin stupid.

Did my post make any sense? probably not at all. Would anyone intelligent enough to realise this is typical behaviour of the site's demographic, on this site, post something as stupid as this? Nope.

Your post made sense. It was fairly well thought out and made some good points. Don't worry, there are far worse rambling discords, go take a look at the post I just wrote for a decent example.

Gender is indeed important, to the furthering survival of the species and personal identity overall. And my dislike of being judged is strange. It is not indicative of the social norm nor would I attempt to claim anyone but me feels that way.

I understand the biological imperatives when it comes to gender. I just think its interesting how we continue to let these imperatives change the way we see and view people even in situations where it has no actual baring outside of our own perception.

Also, I'm not angry. It's never made me angry. Sad, once, or twice, unfairly I will admit as it is to be expected and is not surprising or even vaguely odd. I more thought it was interesting.

I remember reading a post by you before once. Something about money. At the time when I read the job on your info thing it didn't register that 'liver' could mean 'someone who lives' as opposed to just an organ. So I thought you were saying you were an organ of life, which I found pretty silly and cool. This time it clicked that you either mean someone who lives (which is dissapointing) or it's a double entendre (which is even better than just being an organ.)

I could be all at once. Alive, and an organ, AND like... have super speed.

I was going to make a post called "You have a penis, you will do fine here at Newgrounds", then listing minor things that offended me about being a man.

Then I realised that to make the assumption that these things actually made a serious definition on my role as a man was silly.

;)

I'd actually like to read that post. If you end up writing it, as either a mockery of me, serious, or satire, do give me a link.

One would like to think that in such a "modern" society, there exists no sexism (or racism, for that matter, but let's not go THERE). Blah blah blah women get same jobs as men, go to same schools as men, vote like men, WHATEVER. So if women are able to do all of these things, why does there exist such difference between them and men, even within the communities of today? It can certainly be said that many changes have been made to provide the ladies with the same opportunities as a man. Changes have been made to the laws. Changes have been made to the standards.

And THAT is where a lot of the issues can be traced back to, that simple six-letter word: change.

Because humans, and especially men, hate: change.

Anything that disrupts the status quo is a large shock upon other species on this planet, sometimes even enough of a disruptor that it ends many prematurely. Considering that humans themselves can be called a very large disruptor to the status quo, it's unsurprising why the extinction rate went up.

But anyways, what makes a human anymore different than all these animals (or at least the relevant aspect) is that humans can adapt to change. We are able to take a change in, observe it, and adjust to it as a species, even if not every individual survives. Most other creatures would simply perish.

But there is a drawback to this so called adaptive nature of ours, a flaw in order counter this benefit.

Just cuz we CAN do it, don't mean we have to like it.

And sexism was a focus in our society for manymany years. So the introduction of the idea that women are equal to men (even though in all technicality they arent, physically and emotionally, and no that was not sexist, it is merely truth and you know it) was rejected for a long time, and still now it is pushed away.

But with manymany more years to come, perhaps it is possible for women to be on the same level as men. Someday, it may be that the glass ceiling will finally be introduced to the wonders that are thrown projectiles (i.e rocks), or maybe just a ladder. Personally, I hope that day comes soon.

Because then you crazy ass ladies have one less thing to bitch about while you clean up my mess and make me dinner

I don't know if it's really fair to say that men dislike change more than women. Women can be just as staunchly opposed to change. We do hate change that affects us personally though.

Also if you think that true equality will stop some of the bitching, I think you're in for a surprise. Something humans also do well is fine things to bitch about. We're real good at it. Even when making dinner.

welcome to the internet! Yes, I read your whole post and I feel verified in saying that ("welcome to the internet" part). The internet is a great mask that allows people to say whatever they want without fear of punishment. It's a slaughter ground in a way. I also have used both male and female characters/handles/names just to play around with the responses, and the outlook never was any good. But then again, if I can mask my gender, then whats to say that the "men" hitting on my "female" character are really "men". It is true that in the world of the internet things get really messed up. As for the real world, you ladies really do have it made though. As far as work goes, I've lost countless promotions to Female employee's and in the end, was told to TRAIN them how to do the job. Why, minority rules (yes, Woman are treated as a minority). So many times I've watched women get MUCH better treatment then men because of their gender. Someone might say that it's all about the looks. No sir/ma'am, it's not. I know I look like a bald headed freak but some of these woman were down right NASTY. Although the appearance thing does apply to several other places IRL.

Anywho, what I am trying to get at is you are right, Woman get different treatment then men.I would like to say because people can fully blow their pent up sexual frustrations online (this is directed at both genders not just men). People will always do/say/and act as they please online until there is actual consequences to be paid, I believe we are all guilty of this. But I do know one thing, if you post a picture that you drew, I'll judge it on whether it is good or not, if you post a picture of YOURSELF... I'll judge it on whether YOU'RE good or not lol

The hidden persona nature of the internet creates some strange social situation.

I'm sorry to hear you've been passed up for promotion time and again by female applicants, though that is as far as I know not the norm. Good luck in the future with that.

P.S. I'm hideous.

This topic is too DEEP for any meaningful input from me.

In the sense that you might drown in a sea of pesudintalectualpointlessdrivel? Always a danger.

This is unnecessarily too serious.

I dunno about unnecessarily. But maybe.

omg u have boobs??????

As shakespear said. "All of us have boobs. Some of us just have man boobs."

I appreciate your works regardless of your gender. Not saying I'm a totally neutral unbiased type, but even if you were a man, I would feel the exact same way about the things you've uploaded. They're really excellent.

Plus reading your posts makes me feel smart sometimes, which is hard to do for me.

Good work and best of luck.

I'm glad you enjoyed them.

Though I worry reading my posts makes you feel smart because of how dumb I seem. I'm gunna hope that's not the case.

Holyy shit ! That's a huge article ! How long did it take you to write it ?

I dunno. It was late. I have word vomit.

Ok the points you made were silly, so I'll talk in economic metaphores.

Lets say there is a village, it has 100 carrot farms and 10 potatoe farms. Which do you think will sell better?

The price for the potatoes will be a lot higher because of the scarce. People are happy to see more female voice actresses/artists/musicians because it adds to the variety.

Also maybe someone gets the idea ''Man, if chicks come to this place I mgiht be such a loser after all.''

Whatever the reasons this is all because of the LACK of females. You don't see people gasping every time they see a girl profile on Facebook or Myspace, do you?

The advantage you're given is the same that the potatoe farmers get, they provide what the people have a small amount of.

Another thing about feminism in general. It's a joke. All women have an equal chance to become CEO's, pro athletes, renowned artists and etc. Feminism is a load of bull for angry and confused women who really need to bitch about something. It's the real life equivalent of internet trolls, they are angry, bored little beings that just want to ruin everyone elses day. That's what feminists are. You no longer have a cause in this world, drop the charade and go buy new shoes.

How would being angry bored little human being make them different from anyone else?

Also, that potato farmer is selling potatoes. I am not selling women.

Yet.

interesting writings. there's a lot that could be said on this subject, the most obvious being that many denizens of the internet are denizens of the internet because of stunted social tendencies. This probably does quite a bit to explain those heavily polarized responses to perceived gender.

discuss it here <a href="http://michhimself.com/newgroundsirc/">http://michhimself.com/newgroundsirc/
</a>

I dunno how much it explains anything. I don't think i said anything that hasn't already been said dozens upon billions of times before.

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